Glimpses of Baba

(From “The Movement,” California)

Movement Newspaper: You’ve mentioned prior to this interview the “Hour of God.” You said that this hour will be brought to us some­time during the 1980s. Will this come about by the development of man, or will this be an act of the God force itself?

Dr. Gokak: The development of man’s tech­nological forces has been going on for years. There is a possibility that there is going to be a world crisis around the 1980s, after that there will be a definite turn to­ward what we call the Golden Age. At this time, it will be clear to man that any more entering world power games will end in disaster for the whole world; and this will not be done. Simultaneous with this realization, there will be a descent of grace. This descent of grace is what will really bring forward the “Hour of God.” This “Hour of God” is different from the predi­ction regarding the collapse of California.

The “Hour of God” is the hour of the unexpected; there will be different patterns in things. We will find that all elections that take place will place good men into positions of power. It is the good men that will begin to lead the industries. It will be the good men that will serve the people. Then there will be a great change in the very atmosphere. This will be one of the signs of the coming of the Golden Age.

This spiritual awareness will assert itself in small Gnostic groups, a group here, a gro­up there. These groups will have lived this kind of Gnostic lifetime. And meanwhile, there will be signs of the coming Golden Age.

Sai Baba hinted that the person who was to come in a robe with a stock of hair on his head’ is already here. If you like, this is the coming of Christ. You may or may not accept this, but this is what Sai Baba said.

M. N.: What is the importance of being with one’s Teacher, physically.

D. G.: It has very great importance. One cannot consummate a relationship if his work takes him away. One cannot draw all the love and all the delight that he can rece­ive by being nearby. Suppose I have Rama or Krishna for my Master. He is no longer in the flesh. It is quite possible that I could get in touch with my Master in my own meditative musings. But there is a particular delight in the physical presence of one’s Master right with us as a human being. One relates to him as a human being and still he is the Divine in the human. This brings in a certain sense of fulfillment and a certain experience that has been spoken of in all the ancient Indian texts. They say that even the gods hunger for this relationship.

In this evolution, when God comes down and is represented in human flesh, he brings something of the divine himself in human flesh and is part of the evolutionary term “existence.” There is a peculiar joy in this relationship of the human‑Divine, which you don’t get even in the Divine by Himself.

M. N.: If God wanted man to hear His voice, why does man have difficulty in hearing Him?

D. G.: As long as man loves to hear his own voice, how can he hear the voice of God? It’s only when one shuts his own ears to his own voice that he can hear the voice of God. It’s very difficult. The voice of God must penetrate through the many layers with which we have surrounded our­selves. The purer we are, the nearer we are to His voice.

M. N.: How has your spiritual develop­ment changed since working with Baba? Have you noticed the change?

D. G.: Yes, there has been a great deal of change. The first change was that He made me conscious of what divine love stands for. I was an intellectual. I com­pared my emotions to water that jets out from a rock. It is very difficult for this water to come out. It’s like penetrating the heart of a rock. This was my emotional life for a long, long time until I met Him. I don’t know what He did, but He cut down some of this rock. He made it clear for this spring to gush forth. This is only one of the great things that He has done for me.

Another thing that He did for me was to correct me in so many small, even trifling, matters to which I never gave any thought. In India, an intellectual is a lazy person. There is so much labor available that one never has to do anything. This creates an imbalance in one’s personality. Baba does everything. He never allows anyone to do His things. He must do His own packing. If there is a public meeting, He must put up the buntings. He does that. All of this enabled me to get back this balance that was lost.

M. N.: Would you encourage any spiri­tual students to attend the Sai Universities in India?

D. G.: Not unless an American student joins the College for Indian History or Sans­krit or learning a modern Indian language. If he joins anything like Chemistry or Engineering, he will find that he is doing something that is useless for his purpose. The Chemistry or Physics required in a developing country like India is different from the kind of Physics or Chemistry that is required here in America. One can join these universities for study in Indian disci­plines, Indian Philosophy, and so on. And even better, he can join our summer courses; we admit others along with our own students. However, it may be difficult for them. Their diet must change, their habits have to change. They have to get up at four o’ clock in the morning, chant OM, meditate, and go about singing songs of God throughout various villages in the early hours of the morning.

M. N.: I’ve heard that you were visiting with Dr. Benito Reyes of the University of Avasthology in Ojai. What was your im­pression of what was happening there?

D. G.: I have great faith in and a deep appreciation for what Dr. Reyes represents. I believe that he is a very genuine person who doesn’t mince matters, who calls a spade a spade; he never compromises. When it comes to giving up advantages he might have, he will never compromise his Truth. This is a spiritual college interested in spiri­tual things. The entire management is interested in building a spiritual institution. Thus, there may be a great deal of strength in its success because this has been assured by Baba. Dr. Reyes told me that his own Master, who has synchronized with Baba, has told him that between the year 1976 and 1980 a great world Teacher will visit the institution. Dr. Reyes is sure that Sai Baba will come there during the period. For all of you readers who want to know when Baba will come to America, here is a prophecy. Between 1976 and 1980 he is going to come here.

M. N.: Would you encourage people to come to India to see Baba?

D G.: Oh, yes. Particularly because he has set a limit about it. He says he is not going into retirement until all those people that were destined to see him in this lifetime have seen him. Apparently, there are a certain number of people who still have to see him. Until then, he is open and acces­sible to everyone. I don’t know when this will be completed, when the statistics will be over. Therefore, the sooner one goes to him the better.

M. N.: What does Baba require of people, if anything, so that He would wish to come to America? What should the peo­ple do here so that he would be satisfied?

D. G.: He would be very happy to come here and to see seekers of truth steadily pursuing their goal. Nothing pleases Him better than the sight of a man who is sincere to himself and loyal to truth. Those who have been Sai devotees in this country, if they have pursued the Sai way of life—which really means right doing, right thinking, right feeling, and the pouring forth of love to those who are around them—if this is done and the Sai way of life is adopted by them and practiced by them, nothing would be dearer to His heart. It’s not that He wants big receptions. He really would be very happy to go to the homes of people who have lived this kind of life and spend His time with them. He has ideas of coming over here and speaking directly, without an intermediary. But when, I am unable to say. Probably in two or three years. Next year he won’t be able to come here because that is the year of His 50th birthday and the year of festivities for us in India.

M. N.: What does Baba say of the diff­erent religions?

D. G.: The first thing He says is that there is only one religion, the religion of Love. There is only one language, and this is the language of the Heart. There is only one caste, and this is the caste of Humanity. There is only one God and He is omnipre­sent. I am quoting Baba’s own words. He stands for this universality of outlook; His ashram flag contains the symbols of all great religions of the world. Those people who want to believe in their own religion should never be disturbed. They should practice their religion spontaneously, but with proper understanding; they should not practice it in blind manner. One should be guided through His studies.

There are people who don’t want many rituals to bind them on their way. They want to feel free. They want to live a life of psychological awareness. They don’t want to be bound down by any rituals. Their hearts prompt them to turn their whole life into a pilgrimage. If one wants to turn his life into a ritual and be a free person not professing any religion but speaking only of the Divine, then this also is welcome. Just as Baba doesn’t want ritu­als to be discarded, he doesn’t want rituals to be adopted either. It depends on a per­son’s needs in his life. If one needs a reli­gion then he takes it with understanding. If one needs the other lifestyle, then he takes that with understanding.

M. N.: Is there a reason why Baba is always seen in crowds?

D. G.: This is His role. The 24 hours of every day are directed toward liberating the common man, setting him free from his bond­age, wherever he may be from. All the methods, techniques, and exposition of His philosophy are directed toward this particu­lar purpose.

His methods are those for redeeming the common man. His bhajans [devotional songs], which are sung with concentration on their rhythm, music, meaning, and imagery, can liberate the heart and release these springs of life. He has transformed the lives of millions of Indian people and thousands from all parts of the world.

M. N.: Does Baba ever manifest large objects like a house or an airplane? I’ve seen some of the small objects that he has manifested—rings, necklaces, and statues.

D. G.: I have not seen anything like this done, but from what I know of him, a thing like this is possible. If a man can bring back the life of the dead, which has happened in two or three cases, or be in two places at the same time, this also can happen. It has not happened because it was not necessary. These materializations do not take place for fun. They take place when the need is there; when the circumstances require them then they are done.

M. N.: Has Baba explained His ability to do the miracles that we hear about, and His manifestations?

D. G.: Yes. He has said, “I don’t per­form miracles, these miracles flow from Me; how can I help it? It’s my love that expresses itself in this form. I see a person who is dear to me, such a beautiful Soul, and a ring comes out and I give it to him! Here is somebody else; he needs to be healed. He is such a fine person, and some medicine comes out or some healing Vibhuti [sacred ash] and I give it to him!” This is love, nothing else but love. Somebody asked Him, “How is it that you cure so many incurable dis­eases?” Baba answered, “It’s not always done. It’s my experience that I am in the heart of every living being. I am seated there whether he acknowledges Me or not. I am in the heart of every living creature. I therefore love everyone, for in a sense I love myself. If I do this and if the other person also responds to Me and loves Me, then the negative and the positive meet and My love and his love flow into each other; there is a conjunction. And then there is a cure. Where there is no response in love, there is no cure.”

“If I am to satisfy the legitimate worldly desires of My devotees, later I want them to want spiritual gifts. I want them to ask for God Himself. To train them to­ward this desire for God, I satisfy their worldly desires now. I do this so that they might come to Me for something greater.”

These are techniques required of a redee­mer who deals with the common man.

Oh Sai! I long to know Thee better, day by day,
I want to draw much closer when I pray,
To listen more intently for Thy voice,
To let the things Thou choosest be my choice.

Source: Sanathana Sarathi, Jan. 1975