Q & A with Hislop

Dr. John Hislop has been an ardent devotee for many years. There are very few people who have had as much close contact with Swami as he had. His intensity as a spiritual seeker over a number of years and the consequent Grace received put him in a unique place as a spiritual aspirant. We are delighted that he agreed to answer any questions that  may have relating to their own spiritual journey.

Q: Has Swami said anything about depression and about suicide?

A: Dr. Hislop: Depression maybe an aspect of disease or of a serious injury to the nervous system of the body, and recovery may or may not be possible. But the questioner more likely refers to that feeling of hopelessness and apathy that many of us experience from to time.

I know directly of four incidents in which Baba dealt with depression. The earliest, if I remember correctly, was at Prasanthi Nilayam. Both father and son were Sai devotees. The son was seated on the verandah of the mandir, head buried against his knees, in a quite obvious mood of depression. Swami came from His room, stopped in front of the young man, and somewhat sharply said words to this effect, “get up. Don’t sit there. Do your work.” The young man at once obeyed.

The next instance, several years later, was of a young college student, a leading actor in student dramas, and a deeply committed Sai devotee. He was reported ill, and a physician, resident at the hospital was called. The physician reported back to Swami that the student appeared to be in deep depression and refused to respond. Baba then accompanied the physician and said, “He needs food.” After eating food, the student threw off his mood and resumed his duties. In this case also, the depression was a temporary mood.

The third incident was that of an elderly Indian man, a Sai devotee, now quite ill, whose life work had been with an organization interested in matters of philosophy and spirituality, active principally in Europe and America. In speaking of him Baba remarked that he had been in deep depression for the past two years. Yet, as the time for death came near, the man put aside his depression and in his last weeks was radiant with a love and happiness that astounded and delighted his family and friends. Again, even severe depression was a mood from which one could move away.

The fourth incident was, if I remember correctly, in 1970 or 1971. A man from Bombay came to Baba in a mood of deep depression. He had become a compulsive alcoholic and was losing both family and business. Baba told the man not to worry, that he need not stop drinking, that Baba would ask of the man only one promise—that before taking liquor that man would dedicate the drink to Baba. The man gave his promise, and before long was free both of his depression and of his craving for liquor.

In each of the four incidents mentioned, depression was found to not be the person’s permanent nature, but instead a mood that could be put aside quite easily with the compassionate mentor or friend. Baba is such a compassionate friend or a mentor, at this very moment and always, as close to each and every one of us as he was to the four persons mentioned above. If and when any mental or emotional mood arises and threatens one’s well-being, then turn at once to Baba, the Divinity who so quietly and lovingly resides in the hearts of His devotees. Give the depression to Him, dedicate every action, every thought to Him, abandon ownership of the depression. He will so directly and so surely accept the burden. Then, let us be happy and never claim as ours anything but love for the Lord and trust in Him.

But the role of time cannot be denied. That which comes about does so in due course. Baba tells us how to live with the time factor. He advises that we should not turn sadly away if our prayers are not instantly answered, but instead to continue with heartfelt prayer to God until God relents

The second part of the question, about suicide. The natural law of cause and effect, which so directly bears upon the experiences one undergoes in this life, is infinitely subtle and deep. Actions that appear to be similar may in fact be diametrically opposed. The familiar instance is the knife—used by and also by a surgeon, the intention of the one is criminal, and punishment is the consequence; the intent of the surgeon is beneficial, and the reward is fame and prosperity. Thus, there may also be a great range of intention in suicide. But the ordinary suicide as reported in the news media is an action taken with the intention of escaping from a situation judged to be intolerable. Baba’s comment here is that folly to the nth degree, that one cannot escape the consequence of prior actions through suicide. The reaction to the prior action must work itself out, if not now then in a future embodiment. The individual thinking to escape misery by suicide would do well to turn instead to the Divine, surrender mind and heart to Him, keep HIM in mind and heart every waking moment and accept all that comes as His Will.

Q: The more one strives to follow Swami’s teachings, the more faults one uncovers in oneself despairing of ever realizing one’s divinity. How can one continue to have faith in oneself and the goal?

A Dr. Hislop: The faults enumerated by the questioner, to whom do these faults belong? Surely, they are the faults of the body, of one’s emotional nature and of one’s mind, and one’s thoughts. But since one claims these infinitely strong and intimate tensions and tendencies to be not other than oneself, one then identifies with them and thereupon is miserable or happy according to the situation. One reacts to the situation and this gives added strength to the   seemingly endless flow of experiences.

It is only natural to feel and to accept, as does the questioner, that it is he or she, as does the questioner, that it is he or she who is subject to and who is enduring the faults and the despairs mentioned. From the day one is born, everybody from loving parents to the harsh world around us has been assuring us that we indeed are as we have accepted ourselves to be—a human person who is born, who experiences life in the world, and who sooner or later dies.

But now, since one has turned to Sai, enthralled by infinite love, His wisdom, and the beauty and majesty of His life in this world, one learns from Him that one is not this isolated, fallible person to whom good and bad experiences happen, but that in fact is the unmodified knower of all, manifest or latent, not other than Divinity, the source, the refuge, and the finality of all that exists.

Sai lovingly tells us to have just a little faith in what is said by Him, to put aside worldly attachments worldly ideas about oneself and to turn to Him with love, thinking always of Him. That love for God which flows from oneself, and the love for oneself that is the nature of God, will in due course do away with ideas of separateness, for such ideas are said to be without merit or reality. As one turns to Baba one’s beloved Divinity manifest in name and form, the doubts and faults which the questioner claims are there and real will lose their apparent reality and one’s attention will turn away from such ideas, and then Self-inquiry will begin. Now indeed will begin the search for one’s inner-most Reality. To look deeply, one will begin to abandon all ideas of what one is or is not, and then will come the knowing of oneself as the detached witness, and the life-long ideas of one’s faults and shortcomings will no longer be permanent interest and concern.

May the questioner turn to Sai, think of Sai always, surrender all doubts, all difficulties to Sai and never abandon the work of detached Self-inquiry, and persistence will win the day.

Q: Swami focuses on namasmarana, meditation, self-inquiry, seva, etc. as a means to understanding who one really is. What role does psychological understanding of oneself play in this process of understanding who I am? By psychological understanding I mean everyone has certain blocks to the free flow of their energy due to past experiences. Is it important to focus on these?

A: Dr. Hislop: what the questioner really wishes to know is that which he is, his essential truth, and then abide happily in his essential nature.

Understanding, which questioner wants (and of which impulse l also am still a victim) is essentially without merit, for it is based on the idea of duality—he who wishes to understand and that which is to be understood. Both ideas are quite foreign to simple “beingness.”

Baba speaks of “being,” and not “becoming.” The timeless essence of Baba, and the timeless essence of each one of us is Being-Awareness-Bliss (Sat-Cit-Ananda). Even now, in the midst of one’s so-called search for himself, one is—no need to look in a mirror to known if one is or is not.  And one is also “aware,” “Being” and “Awareness” are Divine, and “Being Awareness” is not other than “Bliss.” Baba asks, “You are constantly, and aware endlessly, why then are you not in bliss?”

Then Baba gives the answer to His question: that just as ash from the fire covers and hides the fire, the mind covers and hides the fire, the mind covers and hides the ever-present bliss.

From my limited understanding of Baba’s teachings, I would suggest that both time and energy expended will be more productive if spent in (1) constant devotion to Sai, and (2) the setting aside of all ideas in favor of simple detachment and the observation of what may be revealed by detachment, self-inquiry, and devotion to the Divine, to Baba.