Ramayana Epic Characters Explained-II

Bhakta: Swami, the inner meaning of the Maha­bharata and the Ramayana that You explained is re­ally very interesting. If only one probes deeply, what else is there in them? That kind of Mahabharata and Ramayana is taking place in every heart, through the action and interaction of manas, chittam, and buddhi. You said that the Bhagavatam is also occurring in the same manner. If you will kindly explain how that is happening, we can, after knowing its inner meaning also, start following the ‘subtle’ Ramayana and Mahabharata and Bhagavatam, all three. So please tell me about the Bhagavatam.

Swami: Well, the Bhagavatam is not like the other two; it has no qualities and no Form! It deals with the atma [soul] that is beyond and behind the qualities or gunas, senses or indriyas, the manas and the chittam; it deals with the powers and prowess of the atma and its appa­rent activities or leelas. The Bhagavatam contains the stories of the Incarnations of that which is the Witness of everything.

Bhakta: What are the forms which that Witness assumed? Why did He assume those forms?

Swami: Really speaking, He is all forms—Sarva­swarupee. There is no limit to the number or nature of His forms. Still, if something must be said in conformi­ty with what has happened, Brahma, Vishnu, Maheshwara, Matsya, Kurma, Varaha, Vamana, Narasimha, Rama, and Krishna, these are Its incarnations. In order to tran­sect the creation, the preservation and the destruction of the world, and to punish the wicked and protect the good, He assumes Himself the form He deems as best at the time and for the purpose He has set before Himself. When that purpose is realized, He is as before, the Witness, the atmarupa.

Bhakta: Rama and Krishna also punished the wick­ed and protected the good, isn’t it, Swami? Then how do you say that in the Ramayana and the Mahabharata there is the Gunaswarupa, while in the Bhagavatam there is no Gunaswarupa?

Swami: You see, gunas have a beginning and an end; the atma has neither. Rama and Krishna, too, have no qualities, essentially. They have demonstrated how being above gunas it is possible to keep all gunas under con­trol. The Ramayana and the Mahabharata stories have an end, isn’t it? In that sense, the Bhagavatam has no end. It speaks of the Lord who has no beginning or end. It tells of the forms that the Lord wore in the context of the age, the time, and the object. The other two on the hand, teach the correct policies to be followed in this false, evanescent world and urge men to follow sathya, dharma, santhi, and prema. Do you understand?

Bhakta: Then the Bhagavatam is of no practical use to us, so to say!

Swami: What! It is the Bhagavatam that is of most use to the sadhakas. It alone explains the real secret of the Lord, His real glory, and His real path! The Rama­yana and the Mahabharata endeavor to some extent to uplift the common man, the ordinary man, by moral teach­ing and example. They show how man can deserve the Lord’s grace. But those who seek to know the nature of the atma and of Paramatma should study, more than anything else, the Bhagavatam.

Bhakta: Swami, what is the relation between Bhagavanta, Bhagavata, and the bhakta?

Swami: The relationship between the Maharaja, the Yuvaraja, and the Kumararaja! Bhagavanta or the Lord is the Maharaja, of course; the Bhagavata is second in rank because it has come from the Lord as a derivative, with the status of Yuvaraja; the Kumararaja is dependent on both these and so is the bhakta. The status of Kumararaja is not an ordinary one, he merits the position of the Maha­raja. The rest are inferior to these three. Those who do not rise up to the status of bhakta or Kumararaja have no access to the Court of Maharaja.

Bhakta: Then, Swami, the yogis, the jnanis, the ascetics, do these not deserve that position?

Swami: Whoever he may be, without bhakti [devotion] and the love of the higher truth, how can anyone become a Yogi, or a jnani or an ascetic? They, too, have bhakti in an equal measure. Take Laddu, Jilebi, Mysore Pak and a num­ber of other sweets. In each of them, as the common cause of sweetness there must be the one article – sugar, isn’t it? How else can they be made? So also, in these three paths, the sweetness of the Lord’s name or bhakti is an [essential] ingre­dient. Without it, the very names of these objects become absurd!

Bhakta: Another point, Swami! Can one approach the presence of the Lord only if he has faith in the Lord and only if with that faith he performs japa [taking the name of the Lord], dhyana [meditation], bhajan [singing devotional songs],and puja [prayer]? That is to say, is it not possible to at­tain that position through the path of truth, the path of dharma [righteousness], the path of prema [love], and the path of service to others?

Swami: Well, how can the qualities you mention originate without the fear of sin and the fear of God? Are these paths and the qualifications needed for them ordi­nary and common? No. They are the doors to the ‘inner apartment’ of the Lord. Those that follow those paths can easily reach the precincts of the Lord. Yet, there is a difference between relatives and friends! Those who deve­lop only these qualities are friends; but those who practice them along with devotion to the name and form become relatives, that is the difference. The meditation on the name and the rupa (form) helps to strengthen the gunas [qualities] also. Without that foundation, the gunas cannot be strong and firm and pure. The Lord’s name and the Lord’s rupa remove the dross from the qualities of man.

Bhakta: But the bhakta and the man with good qualities both attain the same place, isn’t it, Swami?

Swami: Certainly. The merely good man becomes a candidate who deserves the place; the good man who has bhakti [devotion] has a title to the place, he cannot be passed over.

Bhakta: Swami, there are many people who are active, doing various things under the slogan, “The Service of man is the Service of God”; do their deeds entitle them to the place?

Swami: Why do you ask so? Certainly, for those that do service with that attitude. But it is very hard to get that real feeling. Considering others as men, simply say­ing that ‘serving them is to serve God’, is not sincerity. The mind will then run in two channels. Grasp the glory of Madhava fully; understand that Madhava is in every manava; believe that service to manava or man is serving Madhava only; then your actions will certainly entitle you to the place. What greater qualification is needed than that? Instead, if ‘service’ is done for name and honor and fame, and if there is a craving in the mind for the fruits of one’s actions, then the statement, “Service to man is ser­vice to God” has no meaning, nor will one get the result expected.

Bhakta: It is very interesting, Swami! Speaking about the Bhagavatam evoked many holy ideas and morals today. So if one delves into it, what invaluable truths will emanate! I am, indeed, blessed this day.

Swami: Have you understood it all? Bhagavatam is the story of the beginning-less, the ending-less atma. It is in both forms, subtle and gross. It is subtler than the subtlest; grosser than the grossest. It has no limit or measure. The Ramayana and the Mahabharata are Ithi­hasas—historical epics. The Bhagavatam is different; it is the description of the atma; it instructs in the path of bhakti. It can never end, nor has it ever a “Finis”. This is the significance of the Bhagavatam.

Source: Sandeha Nivarini